phate's small build

[forcedinduktion]

Nice work Clint!

[phate]

Engine is pretty much totally together. I need to get the old downpipe/mid pipe out and throw the catless one in before I drop the engine back in. Maybe bolt a couple more small things to the engine before the drop, but it's pretty much ready to go. Need to get spark plugs, lol.

Next weekend if I'm feeling motivated.

[TiGraySpeed6]

bah, gapping plugs is highly overrated....
.264 will work

[phate]

We got the car 99% together last over the past two days. Going to try starting it tonight, after I get an oil pan drain plug in there

Also planning to change trans/PTO/diff fluid, and bleed the brakes. Gotta make sure it's all good!

[J-Liss]

Good work

[TiGraySpeed6]

Might as well replace the brake fluid too while your in there, rather than just bleed em...

Hell, at this point seems silly not to unless they were just done

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

How are you going to be breaking her in?

[phate]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Might as well replace the brake fluid too while your in there, rather than just bleed em... Hell, at this point seems silly not to unless they were just done

yeah, that's what I meant, really. No idea how long it's been since the last complete flush.

Originally Posted by Boosten Ya(josh) How are you going to be breaking her in?

First start to warm things up and check for leaks. Once I'm confident nothing is leaking, 20 miles or so of varied rpm driving with just a little bit of boost and lots of engine braking. Change oil after 20 miles, then 500 miles of normal driving, no cruise control or constant rpm. Should have 500 miles within a week or so. After the 500 mile oil change, full throttle tuning begins

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

This is the way I broke in my motor...the only thing that leaks oil is the stock turbo.

[phate]

The last mzr we broke in like this has great compression and it runs better than most speeds I've been in.

[Pseud0logik]

Originally Posted by phate First start to warm things up and check for leaks. Once I'm confident nothing is leaking, 20 miles or so of varied rpm driving with just a little bit of boost and lots of engine braking. Change oil after 20 miles, then 500 miles of normal driving, no cruise control or constant rpm. Should have 500 miles within a week or so. After the 500 mile oil change, full throttle tuning begins

When you say "normal driving" do you mean you're going easy on it, or not? I think a lot of us consider beating on our cars to be normal.

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

I have 32k on the new motor. Runs great and loves timing. PPL That have driven my car such as keefover love it, and confirms that it's running strong. Thank you atvfreek I guess nator socal named my car the beast. Just needs a gtx3071r

[phate]

Originally Posted by Pseud0logik When you say "normal driving" do you mean you're going easy on it, or not? I think a lot of us consider beating on our cars to be normal.

Yeah, somewhat easy, but not granny'ing it or ripping on it everywhere I go. A little bit of boost here and there, lots of engine braking. Most of your "break in" occurs in that first 20 miles, so it's really critical to get the rings to seat in those first few miles.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by phate Yeah, somewhat easy, but not granny'ing it or ripping on it everywhere I go. A little bit of boost here and there, lots of engine braking. Most of your "break in" occurs in that first 20 miles, so it's really critical to get the rings to seat in those first few miles.

Can you imagine the way most cars are broken in when the lot boys go to get the first tanks of gas?

[Pseud0logik]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Can you imagine the way most cars are broken in when the lot boys go to get the first tanks of gas?

When I went to the corvette factory they were taking cars straight from the assembly line to the dyno.

[phate]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Can you imagine the way most cars are broken in when the lot boys go to get the first tanks of gas?

Probably a much better break in than grannying it for those first few miles If you don't build cylinder pressure, there's a chance the rings will never seat.

Originally Posted by Pseud0logik When I went to the corvette factory they were taking cars straight from the assembly line to the dyno.

I'd do that if I had my own dyno, lol.

[Pseud0logik]

So change the oil in your new car as soon as you get home from the dealer. Take it kinda easy for 500 miles, then change it again. Easy enough.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by phate Probably a much better break in than grannying it for those first few miles If you don't build cylinder pressure, there's a chance the rings will never seat. I'd do that if I had my own dyno, lol.

I think I grannied mine. FML.

Anyhow, I'm glad to see your build coming together and think it is a really cool thing to do for your cousin.

I'm looking forward to seeing the results of a fresh engine and some Phate massaging.

[J-Liss]

yea, seriously, your cousin owe's bj's from darksuns mama for life.

[wolly6973]

Originally Posted by Pseud0logik When I went to the corvette factory they were taking cars straight from the assembly line to the dyno.

That's how they do it at the Subaru/Toyota plant I went to as well. They don't even strap em down. Roll on, mash throttle to 80, cruise at 60 for a few, done.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2

[phate]

Alright, we got everything together and all the fluids changed tonight. Cranked the car over and it won't fire

It seems the injectors aren't firing. We have fuel, fuel pressure of 60psi, the injector driver fuse is good, the injector relay is good. I pulled a spark plug after cranking and it's dry. The AP shows a injection amount of 0 during cranking. My 6 shows an injection amount right before it fires, so something is amiss.

Checked voltage at the spill valve and it doesn't show anything while cranking. It threw a P0091 code at some point, but I'm not totally sure why.

We checked the harness and whatnot, and all seems well. Injector resistor thing is plugged in, main harness is plugged in. I put the injector harness on the injectors when it was on the stand, so im pretty sure those are good. Going to come back tomorrow to see if we missed something simple.

Any ideas?

[phate]

On my way home I was thinking "why wouldn't the ecu calculate fueling...", and it occurred to me that the MAF is the primary driver behind that calc. So, I'll check it out and clean it tomorrow, and see what voltage it reads while cranking.

[btstarcher]

Even if the MAF fails completely you should see some fuel. At least I would think you would. I'd double check the connections to the fuel pressure regulator circuit. Test for continuity as well.

[phate]

If the ecu doesn't know the MAF is bad or dirty, and it's not sending signal, it simply wouldn't be able to tell how much air is entering the engine. We'll see, I'm hoping it's something simple.

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

Us too.

[TiGraySpeed6]

How's your battery? Otherwise, it reads like a spill valve connection issue...

Obviously you've got the manual, but I'm dropping these two P0091 pages here for folks to play along...

[J-Liss]

yea i had fueling issues on my mazda 3 right now still do, MAF was disconnected and still got fuel.

[Lex]

I don't think the ECU uses the MAF during cranking. The signal is erratic at that point - it has a cranking/start routine.

Are you sure the injectors are not firing? Use a "garage stethoscope" (screwdriver with tip on injector and handle to your ear) to identify if they are clicking.

Sounds like an electrical issue.

[phate]

I'm pretty sure they aren't firing. After cranking it over quite a few times, I pulled the spark plug and it was totally dry/didn't smell like fuel.

I checked my car during cranking and it registers an injection pulse width on the AP. This car doesn't do that, so I don't known if it's commanding the injectors to fire.

Edit, I have a stethoscope, so I'll break it out tonight and have a listen.

[amoosenamedhank]

When my hprv took a complete shit on me.. the car did the exact same thing. It was frozen open so no fuel was really getting to the injectors.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by phate I'm pretty sure they aren't firing. After cranking it over quite a few times, I pulled the spark plug and it was totally dry/didn't smell like fuel. I checked my car during cranking and it registers an injection pulse width on the AP. This car doesn't do that, so I don't known if it's commanding the injectors to fire. Edit, I have a stethoscope, so I'll break it out tonight and have a listen.

Any other strange wiring issues or things in the log? For example if it's registering something strange with the throttle it may not fire (similar to doing a compression test).

[phate]

TiGraySpeed6 - Glad you mentioned the battery. It was relocated to the trunk by Scott after it was down. Soo, it wasn't tested in a working car, and I think it could use some better grounding. We had the 6's battery connected to a running car's battery, so we wouldn't have to worry about killing it.

I cleaned the body connections last night and it helped the engine turn over faster, but still not great. I'm going to run a ground wire from the front to the back, in addition to what is already there. That's a high priority for tonight.

The spill valve: not sure if that's an issue or not, but I don't think so. I didn't see pressure higher than 60psi while cranking, so I jumpered the spill valve during a cranking cycle and it didn't help. Spill valve clicks when jumpering, so I think it's good.

Since this car wasn't running when I got it, it's a bit of a headache because we don't know if there were other issues going on. My 6 can be a temporary parts donor to diagnose these things, though

[phate]

Originally Posted by Lex Any other strange wiring issues or things in the log? For example if it's registering something strange with the throttle it may not fire (similar to doing a compression test).

Checked that too, lol. APP sensor reads properly. If I can't get it going tonight, I'll pull some data logs and see what's going on. I was just flipping through the live monitor last night.

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by phate TiGraySpeed6 - Glad you mentioned the battery. It was relocated to the trunk by Scott after it was down. Soo, it wasn't tested in a working car, and I think it could use some better grounding. We had the 6's battery connected to a running car's battery, so we wouldn't have to worry about killing it. I cleaned the body connections last night and it helped the engine turn over faster, but still not great. I'm going to run a ground wire from the front to the back, in addition to what is already there. That's a high priority for tonight. The spill valve: not sure if that's an issue or not, but I don't think so. I didn't see pressure higher than 60psi while cranking, so I jumpered the spill valve during a cranking cycle and it didn't help. Spill valve clicks when jumpering, so I think it's good. Since this car wasn't running when I got it, it's a bit of a headache because we don't know if there were other issues going on. My 6 can be a temporary parts donor to diagnose these things, though

Just make sure you didn't misunderstand me. I was referring to the high pressure relief valve located in the fuel rail. Not the spill valve on the CDFP.

[phate]

Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank Just make sure you didn't misunderstand me. I was referring to the high pressure relief valve located in the fuel rail. Not the spill valve on the CDFP.

Yessir. If all else fails, I'll throw mine in it.

[silvapain]

Have you checked the CKP and CMP? The car won't send fuel if it doesn't see the cams and crank moving.


Tapadatass

[phate]

Originally Posted by silvapain Have you checked the CKP and CMP? The car won't send fuel if it doesn't see the cams and crank moving. Tapadatass

Haven't gotten that in depth lol.

[djuosnteisn]

Just saw this thread, great work Clint.

I agree pulling just the motor would be one hell of a headache. Much easier to just pop the axles and pull it all together. How was going out the front? When we did mine, we just plucked it out the top and it wasn't bad at all. It'd be even easier if you pull the fire wall cowl off too.





On the start up issue, i think most the bases have been covered. I'm sure it'll be something simple once you see it. Is the valve cover powder coated or anything? You can even use a volt meter with a sharp lead, and stab the crank / cam pos sensor wires, and slowly rotate the crank with the key on. You should be able to see the high and low voltages plain as day.

[TiGraySpeed6]

wow, that's a heckuva picture....

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Just saw this thread, great work Clint. I agree pulling just the motor would be one hell of a headache. Much easier to just pop the axles and pull it all together. How was going out the front? When we did mine, we just plucked it out the top and it wasn't bad at all. It'd be even easier if you pull the fire wall cowl off too. On the start up issue, i think most the bases have been covered. I'm sure it'll be something simple once you see it. Is the valve cover powder coated or anything? You can even use a volt meter with a sharp lead, and stab the crank / cam pos sensor wires, and slowly rotate the crank with the key on. You should be able to see the high and low voltages plain as day.

When we pulled my engine we left the trans and subframe in place. It was a real bitch to get the clutch out of the bell housing because the timing cover hits the frame rail. I'm pulling the trans and putting them back in together when the time comes.


Tapadatass