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-   -   Wiki main format discussion (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f704/wiki-main-format-discussion-166793/)

Enki 03-19-2014 02:20 PM

Wiki main format discussion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by someguy (Post 2503032)
I'd suggest you want to lay out an index of sorts with some structure like:

Tuning
- General
- - What is tuning
- - Terms
- How To's
- ATR
- - Boost
- - Timing
- - Fueling
- - etc
- Hypertech
- etc
Parts
- How To's
- Intakes
- - MAF Sensor
- Downpipes
- - O2 Sensor
- Fuel Pumps
- etc
Vehicle Specific
- MS3
- - GenWon
- - GenPu
- MS6
- Miata
- CX-7

and so on and so forth. I think having the basic structures and indexes is the best place to start before creating random pages. Then just go through and fill in the blanks once a high level structure is agreed on. If you just create random pages without any structure (the URL structure in wiki guides the layout to a big extent) it will be a total mess.

Personally I think the specific vehicle/year considerations should be a part of the main page for whatever just to cut down on having to get click happy or having information in multiple locations, even if that means the pages get a little bigger.

Keep in mind we can always reformat/redirect pages as needed later.

Gr8Speed 03-19-2014 02:24 PM

Under Parts I would start with a "General Build Path" section to talk about the order of bolt-ons. Hopefully that will eliminate most of the stupid questions regarding what to buy in what order.

Enki 03-19-2014 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed (Post 2503081)
Under Parts I would start with a "General Build Path" section to talk about the order of bolt-ons. Hopefully that will eliminate most of the stupid questions regarding what to buy in what order.

Quote:

Tuning
- General
- - Terms
- - What is tuning
- How To's
- ATR
- - Boost
- - Timing
- - Fueling
- Hypertech
- etc
Parts
- General Build Paths / Stages
- How To's
- Intakes
- - MAF Sensor
- Downpipes
- - O2 Sensor
- Fuel Pumps
Like so...Anyone else have suggestions before I start laying this framework out?

Vansquish 03-19-2014 02:36 PM

In the tuning section, even though there's going to be some overlap in the Boost/Timing portions, it might behove us to have a "load" portion. This will be quite important for the newbs who don't really understand the ECU's strategies with respect to hitting various targets. I know it's not the most popular concept, but I firmly believe that having a subsection dedicated to fuel economy would be good too, though that could be in the fueling area.

WetzMS3 03-19-2014 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed (Post 2503081)
Under Parts I would start with a "General Build Path" section to talk about the order of bolt-ons. Hopefully that will eliminate most of the stupid questions regarding what to buy in what order.

I would suggest that in this section things remain fairly general. I've noticed that a lot of the "Official Exhaust/Intake/(Whatever)" threads included specific parts available. Eventually that information becomes out dated and either includes parts that are no longer made, or does not include all options currently on the market.

I think it's a good idea to reduce those questions, just in general terms.

Enki 03-19-2014 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vansquish (Post 2503092)
In the tuning section, even though there's going to be some overlap in the Boost/Timing portions, it might behove us to have a "load" portion. This will be quite important for the newbs who don't really understand the ECU's strategies with respect to hitting various targets. I know it's not the most popular concept, but I firmly believe that having a subsection dedicated to fuel economy would be good too, though that could be in the fueling area.

Quote:

Parts
- General Build Paths / Stages
- How To's
- Fuel Pumps
- Intakes
- - MAF Sensor
- Downpipes
- - O2 Sensor
Tuning
- General
- - Terms
- - What is tuning
- How To's
- Hypertech
- MazdaEdit
- - Boost
- - Timing
- - Fueling
- - Load
- ATR
- - Boost
- - Timing
- - Fueling
- - Load
Load is quite important for a consistent tune; swapped some other stuff around a bit too. Keep the suggestions coming guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 (Post 2503101)
I would suggest that in this section things remain fairly general. I've noticed that a lot of the "Official Exhaust/Intake/(Whatever)" threads included specific parts available. Eventually that information becomes out dated and either includes parts that are no longer made, or does not include all options currently on the market.

I think it's a good idea to reduce those questions, just in general terms.

The good thing about a wiki is that if someone sees it has something in it that is no longer accurate, it only takes a moment or two to update it.

We can also embed MAF cals to go with the intakes list.

someguy 03-19-2014 02:53 PM

Yeah guys, load or whatever other things makes sense in the tuning section. I just made some high level quick examples, not a complete list. I'd imagine MAF calibration, throttle tables, knock tables, etc are all applicable with what they mean, how to monitor them, how to adjust them and what adjusting them does.

I think some model specific stuff is useful too. Tuning can probably be shared but there are definitely very model specific things too when you look past the MS3/MS6.

Also, random question or something for consideration...are big turbo's and engine build's their own section or do they belong in parts?

Oh and definitely a NATOR page to explain it to the masses, even if it's just populated with the sticky description.

gigliotti175 03-19-2014 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enki (Post 2503086)
Like so...Anyone else have suggestions before I start laying this framework out?

Is this specifically going to be for just tuning?

Or are you trying to convert MSF into a quick reference Wiki? (DP, Suspension, Intakes, etc.)

Enki 03-19-2014 03:04 PM

The goal of this is to replace sticky threads, provide a permanent living place for hard information and leave discussions to the forums.

someguy 03-19-2014 03:07 PM

That's the key, living. The sticky's it's hard to tell if they're still relevant and not everyone can edit/update them. This way we have a place where the good content can continue to be updated as the platform advances. It's also a nice way of being able to search everything in a friendly format.

Enki 03-19-2014 03:10 PM

Yeah 99% of the time, searching the forums for intakes/dp/etc gets you a mod list from someone's sig.

gigliotti175 03-19-2014 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enki (Post 2503137)
The goal of this is to replace sticky threads, provide a permanent living place for hard information and leave discussions to the forums.

Would you like a "layout" for each "section" then? Or at least something to go off of?

Like I said, I will leave the tuning for the experts, but I can do a sample layout for the other stuff.

Enki 03-19-2014 03:29 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This is the format I'm running with right now; the goal being to keep data centralized and update main sections with minor subsections for each year; there's no point in having pages dedicated to say, setting boost levels when that can be explained all on one page.

Edit:
I'm saying the relevant pages will have information or at least link to sub pages with the relevant information for a particular model/year.

gigliotti175 03-19-2014 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enki (Post 2503166)
This is the format I'm running with right now; the goal being to keep data centralized and update main sections with minor subsections for each year; there's no point in having pages dedicated to say, setting boost levels when that can be explained all on one page.

Edit:
I'm saying the relevant pages will have information or at least link to sub pages with the relevant information for a particular model/year.

I see what you're getting at. I will start filling in what I can here in a couple hours. This should give you time to keep doing what you're doing.

mxlplx71 03-19-2014 03:51 PM

I think this should be a Vip perk to view

someguy 03-19-2014 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxlplx71 (Post 2503200)
I think this should be a Vip perk to view

It's not tied to the permissions of the site...besides, this should draw more people in to MSF in the first place.

Enki 03-19-2014 04:10 PM

The real detriment is that anyone will be able to get this information; they don't have to even have an account on MSF. Perhaps we should make it login based, and do admin-authed logins with a specific process tied to MSF with some kind of verification process...or somehow tie in MSF auth to the wiki.
@Haltech; how much information can a non MSF member (guests) get from the forums? Do they get access to all the stickies on learning to tune, intakes, and everything else?

someguy 03-19-2014 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enki (Post 2503234)
The real detriment is that anyone will be able to get this information; they don't have to even have an account on MSF. Perhaps we should make it login based, and do admin-authed logins with a specific process tied to MSF with some kind of verification process...or somehow tie in MSF auth to the wiki.
@Haltech; how much information can a non MSF member (guests) get from the forums? Do they get access to all the stickies on learning to tune, intakes, and everything else?

Yes you can see all the stickies. Basically anything you can search with google right now using the site:mazdaspeedforums.org key is publicly accessible anyway unless Haltech setup a crawler account.

IMO I don't think the wiki should be hidden or restricted from viewing by the masses. At some point though I think we should close general account creation though so editing/creating/etc is restricted.

Haltech 03-19-2014 04:56 PM

Im not about hiding this stuff.. Im pro GPL and i think this information should be shared. Honestly, your average guy will look at this and it will go way above his head. I was also under the impression their would be links to specifics on the forum anyhow.. People always have questions or are not clear about things.

802MS3 03-19-2014 05:23 PM

This is very cool. Creative Commons license FTW.

gigliotti175 03-19-2014 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haltech (Post 2503297)
...I was also under the impression their would be links to specifics on the forum anyhow.. People always have questions or are not clear about things.

This^^

zenit 03-19-2014 06:20 PM

Can we add on a suspension page, pretty please?

someguy 03-19-2014 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenit (Post 2503393)
Can we add on a suspension page, pretty please?

Parts and Modification - Mazdaspeed Forums Mazdaspeed 3/6 Wikispeedia

Start filling it in, there are categories :)

zenit 03-19-2014 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someguy (Post 2503402)

Thanks!

Will do tonight. Mentioning suspension folks to get things moving, mostly because I can't contribute much to the ms6 suspension area.

@Nliiitend1 @Tomas @phate @sac02 @Design @Bap @helmetface @Deldran @silvapain @Code Monkey @KevinK2 @Mattyhawk1 @Todd98SE @hnda etr @Neverlift

zenit 03-19-2014 09:09 PM

*Phew*

Outlined most of the suspension pages.

Added some wheel information to the "Tire" page... I'm not sure what definitive, cite-able information we can add on to the "Tires" page. Wheels on the other hand...

@Mattyhawk1, if you have the time, these sections could your eye for formatting/layout.

Enki 03-19-2014 09:36 PM

I'd break down the tires page based on user reviews of common (and currently available) tire compounds/sizes. The wheels page should be broken down based on model/year and go over what wheel AND tire sizes work with what offsets and suspension lowering rates (with a tie in to the suspension page, which should be broken down in a similar fashion and link back to the wheel page).

dale_gribble 03-19-2014 09:38 PM

I love the format so far.

Enki 03-19-2014 10:19 PM

@zenit; is dumping data in pretty hardcore (which is awesome) but we need to figure out a better way to present that data...the current structure kills my eyes. Thoughts, @dale_gribble;?

Edit:
Just did some manual tables for one of the E85 relevant pages:
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/wiki...ends_by_Region

Could be better but MUCH nicer than it was, and easier to update.

Mattyhawk1 03-19-2014 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenit (Post 2503629)
*Phew*

Outlined most of the suspension pages.

Added some wheel information to the "Tire" page... I'm not sure what definitive, cite-able information we can add on to the "Tires" page. Wheels on the other hand...

@Mattyhawk1, if you have the time, these sections could your eye for formatting/layout.

I'll take a look.

This is going to be awesome, but take a bit of time. Looking forward to the final product. :biggrin:

We need a section on brakes

EDIT: Never mind, I added it.

Enki 03-19-2014 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyhawk1 (Post 2503681)
We need a section on brakes

EDIT: Never mind, I added it.

Nice being able to do that, isn't it? :D

Mattyhawk1 03-19-2014 11:08 PM

@zenit, the wheel section looks nice.

Haltech 03-19-2014 11:29 PM

Wow, good work. Like the tables james.

Ive been reading up on the image placement within the document and how to align text, caption etc.

Are we going to place them as its being written or go back and place them? These guys will have to get comfortable laying down some of the $variables and shit to place images, citations, etc.

Enki 03-19-2014 11:43 PM

Might be best if we set up templates and shit to make certain things easier; then others can simply look at a page that has a similar setup and copy that.

Vansquish 03-20-2014 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyhawk1 (Post 2503705)
@zenit, the wheel section looks nice.

Agreed! I modified it slightly so that it's more accurate. Now it's "Wheels and Tires" and there's data on each of the models for OE tire sizes.

Edit:

Well, there was all that information. I'll have to see about digging it up again on my home computer. For some reason the page no longer shows that information. Did someone hide/delete it?

Re-Edit:

Nevermind, I managed to dig it up and save the info into the Wiki again.

Erick13Speed3 03-20-2014 05:52 AM

The page looks good so far you guys, keep it up. As far as the stage builds, how are you going about that? Like the first stage would be an Intake, CBE, AP and HPFP? Pertaining the fuel pumps, would you just be adding the different manufactures of the FP's like CS, autotech, kmd and listing prices and failure rates?

Edit: Failure rate not needed, autotechs sell the most and would most likely have the highest failure rate despite being used by most

Mattyhawk1 03-20-2014 06:04 AM

Something else that concerns me though, it may run into situations that Wikipedia ran into back in the day.

Since anyone can modify info (and you know this thing has the potential to get big) how is quality control going to be managed? What is going to keep someone from messing with established info on a page and/or accidentally deleting info? You could have administrators for each section who could make sure changes were acceptable before publishing content, but the work load and volunteer staff would be pretty high.

zenit 03-20-2014 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enki (Post 2503679)
@zenit; is dumping data in pretty hardcore (which is awesome) but we need to figure out a better way to present that data...the current structure kills my eyes. Thoughts, @dale_gribble;?


Agreed. Last night was a bit of an information dump.

I'll definitely work on restructuring/moving things around, hopefully putting data in table format or on separate sub-pages.

I may move brakes up one level, as it's not really "suspension" per say, kind of like wheels & tires.

I'll be gone all day today- so maybe tomorrow.

Gr8Speed 03-20-2014 06:21 AM

I agree there should be some sort of oversight. But not only oversight in that someone is looking over it. The person looking over it should have some expertise/knowledge in that field. An example would be Enki policing an e85 fueling section.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mattyhawk1 03-20-2014 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenit (Post 2503875)
I may move brakes up one level, as it's not really "suspension" per say, kind of like wheels & tires.

I'll be gone all day today- so maybe tomorrow.

Since you decided to flake on us today :laugh2:, I took care of it.

Enki 03-20-2014 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed (Post 2503887)
I agree there should be some sort of oversight. But not only oversight in that someone is looking over it. The person looking over it should have some expertise/knowledge in that field. An example would be Enki policing an e85 fueling section.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It helps that everything can (should) have references as well, though I do agree that someone at least knowledgeable (preferably a subject matter expert) should be in charge of editing their specific section.


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