Attempting Bnr Self Tune

[TurboGsxr600]

Well it looks like I'll be trying to self tune my Bar stage 3 set up. I have been doing alot of research. Im going to take my time with this and see what happens. I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone can give me. Especially the guys running this turbo. I will keep my progress posted. Thanks a lot

[skiptowncat]

ATR tuning A BNR Stage 3

[Raider]

Or donate, go VIP and use one of our MSF e-Tuners to get it done right?

[skeurton]

I've been tracking my tuning progress over in my thread. I have some VD plots and logs posted, as well. I'm running on straight 93 gas, no aux fueling. Start with this post:

BNR Stage 3

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by skiptowncat ATR tuning A BNR Stage 3

I have read through this thread a couple times. It did help alot

Originally Posted by skeurton I've been tracking my tuning progress over in my thread. I have some VD plots and logs posted, as well. I'm running on straight 93 gas, no aux fueling. Start with this post: BNR Stage 3

Thanks I haven't seen this one yet. I will be running 93 as well. Thought about doing a 3/9 blend of e85 but going to see what I can do on straight 93 first.

[skiptowncat]

Yeah, get a solid pump gas tune first then work on the e85 tune.

[ms3blackmica]

Let me know if you have any questions during the process

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica Let me know if you have any questions during the process

Will do man. Thanks

[TurboGsxr600]

Just wanted to give a little update. I started working on my tune yesterday. Only running spring pressure at the moment. The past couple days I've been working on calibrating my MAF. Now that I'm happy with the LTFT's, tomorrow I'll be working on dialing in the fuel. I'm going to start out with a commanded AFR of 10.9. If I hit that without issues then 'll start adding a little more boost (17-18PSI). Timing table is also very conservative right now. This is the thing that intimidates me the most. If someone running a BNR on pump 93 would be willing to show me there's I'd really appreciate it.

[skeurton]

Originally Posted by TurboGsxr600 Just wanted to give a little update. I started working on my tune yesterday. Only running spring pressure at the moment. The past couple days I've been working on calibrating my MAF. Now that I'm happy with the LTFT's, tomorrow I'll be working on dialing in the fuel. I'm going to start out with a commanded AFR of 10.9. If I hit that without issues then 'll start adding a little more boost (17-18PSI). Timing table is also very conservative right now. This is the thing that intimidates me the most. If someone running a BNR on pump 93 would be willing to show me there's I'd really appreciate it.

Here's my timing table that I'm running now. And check out this post for a few corresponding logs...

BNR Stage 3

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by TurboGsxr600 Just wanted to give a little update. I started working on my tune yesterday. Only running spring pressure at the moment. The past couple days I've been working on calibrating my MAF. Now that I'm happy with the LTFT's, tomorrow I'll be working on dialing in the fuel. I'm going to start out with a commanded AFR of 10.9. If I hit that without issues then 'll start adding a little more boost (17-18PSI). Timing table is also very conservative right now. This is the thing that intimidates me the most. If someone running a BNR on pump 93 would be willing to show me there's I'd really appreciate it.

I am glad you are taking this approach.

Its always best to run spring pressure until you get other things dialed in. Then work your way up slowly on boost as well as AFR.

I would leave your timing low until you get your boost and AFR dialed in.

Sounds like your going to get this done in a very safe manner.

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by skeurton Here's my timing table that I'm running now. And check out this post for a few corresponding logs... BNR Stage 3

Thanks man. What was your peak timing when you first started the tune? I'm at 9 right now but after seeing that I think I need to go up bit more conservative before I start adding boost.

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica I am glad you are taking this approach. Its always best to run spring pressure until you get other things dialed in. Then work your way up slowly on boost as well as AFR. I would leave your timing low until you get your boost and AFR dialed in. Sounds like your going to get this done in a very safe manner.

I sure hope so. I'm just going to take my time and see what happens.

[skeurton]

Originally Posted by TurboGsxr600 Thanks man. What was your peak timing when you first started the tune? I'm at 9 right now but after seeing that I think I need to go up bit more conservative before I start adding boost.

I started out with OTS Stage2 93 timing, so peak was 9*. Just like you, I made sure to get everything else dialed in before moving on to timing.

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by skeurton I started out with OTS Stage2 93 timing, so peak was 9*. Just like you, I made sure to get everything else dialed in before moving on to timing.

That's good to know. That's what I'm running right now as well. I didn't get to work on anything tonight due to the weather. Kinda sucks. Do you have any tips for a starting point with the WGDC's? I'm running the grimmspeed 3 port as well. Thanks again!

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by TurboGsxr600 That's good to know. That's what I'm running right now as well. I didn't get to work on anything tonight due to the weather. Kinda sucks. Do you have any tips for a starting point with the WGDC's? I'm running the grimmspeed 3 port as well. Thanks again!

Set your entire WGDC table to 0. Set your Error compensation tables (both BEC and LEC)

See what boost you hit on spring pressure so you have an idea.

Then re-enter values back into the under-side of the error comp tables. Let the ECU take over and attemp to hit your boost targets. You probably won't hit them.

Slowly work your WGDC up until you hit targets.

[atvfreek]

Depending on the version of ots map you're using, the LEC table won't be populated, if it is I like to multiply it by .25. That will neuter the table. Then I leave the BEC table ots and simply change the high ramp tables to zero. Then you can still have ots values to fall back onto in the BEC table. Then zero out the wgdc table from 2500-redline. That will give you spring pressure like stated above. Should be around 14psi.

All the bnr's I've tuned end up with around 50-55 for wgdc to hit and hold 21-22psi. But you want to work up the wgdc and also populate the high ramp limit tables after you determine spring pressure. It will take a couple maps to dial in, so be patient and don't rush. Costly mistakes can happen pretty fast

Freekn tappin

[ms3blackmica]

^^^
atvfreek hits nail on the head for you!

I can attest that it can get a bit annoying starting so low, but its 110% worth it to just work your way up...

It also gives you a bit of a learning curve for the new setup. You get to see how every little change reacts.

You will love your car when you are done.

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Depending on the version of ots map you're using, the LEC table won't be populated, if it is I like to multiply it by .25. That will neuter the table. Then I leave the BEC table ots and simply change the high ramp tables to zero. Then you can still have ots values to fall back onto in the BEC table. Then zero out the wgdc table from 2500-redline. That will give you spring pressure like stated above. Should be around 14psi. All the bnr's I've tuned end up with around 50-55 for wgdc to hit and hold 21-22psi. But you want to work up the wgdc and also populate the high ramp limit tables after you determine spring pressure. It will take a couple maps to dial in, so be patient and don't rush. Costly mistakes can happen pretty fast Freekn tappin

Thanks guys! This is the approach I'm going to take. Hopefully I will get to take some logs tonight and post them up

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Depending on the version of ots map you're using, the LEC table won't be populated, if it is I like to multiply it by .25. That will neuter the table. Then I leave the BEC table ots and simply change the high ramp tables to zero. Then you can still have ots values to fall back onto in the BEC table. Then zero out the wgdc table from 2500-redline. That will give you spring pressure like stated above. Should be around 14psi. All the bnr's I've tuned end up with around 50-55 for wgdc to hit and hold 21-22psi. But you want to work up the wgdc and also populate the high ramp limit tables after you determine spring pressure. It will take a couple maps to dial in, so be patient and don't rush. Costly mistakes can happen pretty fast Freekn tappin

So I want to leave LEC zeroed correct? Then just use wgdc and BEC to hit my boost targets when I get to that point?

[TurboGsxr600]

Just finished doing a bit of logging. I ended up hitting fuel cut during my 4th gear WOT pull. Boost crept up to 21psi near redline. Maybe I shouldn't have zeroed the over boost side on my BEC table?

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by TurboGsxr600 Just finished doing a bit of logging. I ended up hitting fuel cut during my 4th gear WOT pull. Boost crept up to 21psi near redline. Maybe I shouldn't have zeroed the over boost side on my BEC table?

Can't see the log right now, but you want to leave the whole bec table populated, especially the overboost side. I like to use the LEC table as well. And incorporate all the load tables, which will add extra overboost protection.

Freekn tappin

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Can't see the log right now, but you want to leave the whole bec table populated, especially the overboost side. I like to use the LEC table as well. And incorporate all the load tables, which will add extra overboost protection. Freekn tappin

I changed BEC to ots stock, set WGDC to 50 across the board, targeting 20 psi from 3k-redline.
Made a few pulls. No fuel cut this time. Still over boosting a little.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by TurboGsxr600 I changed BEC to ots stock, set WGDC to 50 across the board, targeting 20 psi from 3k-redline. Made a few pulls. No fuel cut this time. Still over boosting a little.

What I would do is set the wgdc table to 40 and then enter a 10 or 20 into the boost error ramp limit high table. That should get you close. You always want wgdc to be a little lower than actual

[TurboGsxr600]

I think I'm finally getting my boost dialed in. Where are you guys hitting full boost on your BNR's? The log I posted is only a 3rd gear pull. What do you think so far?

[TurboGsxr600]

Can someone help me diagnose the knock I'm getting? I tried pulling timing in that area but that seemed to make it worse. Map and log posted below. Thanks guys

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by TurboGsxr600 Can someone help me diagnose the knock I'm getting? I tried pulling timing in that area but that seemed to make it worse. Map and log posted below. Thanks guys

Timing is obviously very low and AFR is decently rich.

Do you have stock engine mounts? Stock injector seals?

Anything possible loose that could be rattling triggering KR ?

These cars are extremely sensitive. I can get false KR by hitting an imperfection in road.

[skeurton]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica Timing is obviously very low and AFR is decently rich. Do you have stock engine mounts? Stock injector seals? Anything possible loose that could be rattling triggering KR ? These cars are extremely sensitive. I can get false KR by hitting an imperfection in road.

Yup. Trying running this KR Offset table and keep the knock sensor active up to 6500 rpm. It should help filter out the false KR.

0.16	0.16	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.16	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.16	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.16	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.16	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.16	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.14	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.28	0.36	0.40	0.60	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80	0.80
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10
0.16	0.12	0.16	0.33	0.45	0.50	0.75	0.90	1.00	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10	1.10

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica Timing is obviously very low and AFR is decently rich. Do you have stock engine mounts? Stock injector seals? Anything possible loose that could be rattling triggering KR ? These cars are extremely sensitive. I can get false KR by hitting an imperfection in road.

Yes both of those actually. I'm hoping to get my motor mount installed this weekend. I did noticed on other logs that's it's not there so maybe it is a false reading.

Originally Posted by skeurton Yup. Trying running this KR Offset table and keep the knock sensor active up to 6500 rpm. It should help filter out the false KR. 0.16 0.16 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.16 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.16 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.16 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.16 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.16 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.14 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.28 0.36 0.40 0.60 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.80 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 0.16 0.12 0.16 0.33 0.45 0.50 0.75 0.90 1.00 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.10

I will give this a shot. Thank you

[TurboGsxr600]

Also during 3rd gear logs I get very little (.3-.7) if any knock at all

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by TurboGsxr600 Also during 3rd gear logs I get very little (.3-.7) if any knock at all

theres a chance the KR was false then in your previous log where it hit almost 3.

only way to really know is go out and do consecutive pulls and look to see if the KR is consistent.

at your base timing and afr i dont think you should be knocking that bad unless there is some other issue

[rfinkle2]

This may sound a bit backwards, but try leaning it out.

Sometimes our car experiences a touch of "rich knock".

[ms3rick]

I have seen Lex do some 400HP bnr3s..... This last weekend.. =)

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 This may sound a bit backwards, but try leaning it out. Sometimes our car experiences a touch of "rich knock".

As finkle said, its also another possibility.

I've learned very quickly that not every car responds to the same tuning stradedy.

Some cars knock when boost is high with lower timing, others knock when boost low is and higher timing.

And some cars can take higher boost AND higher timing together. Others need a well balance.

I've learned that you really have to see how the car responds with different boost levels, AFR, and timing. I like to work with the cars specific "attitude" if you will...

Try different things. But deff see if that higher KR you were seeing is consistent first!

[Lex]

In any testing you do, the first thing to check for is consistency and repeatability.

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by Lex In any testing you do, the first thing to check for is consistency and repeatability.

Thanks Guys. It hasn't at all been consistent. Out of 20 pulls it might be there that high in 10. Sometimes as high as 4.5 other times not much at all

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by TurboGsxr600 Thanks Guys. It hasn't at all been consistent. Out of 20 pulls it might be there that high in 10. Sometimes as high as 4.5 other times not much at all

If you can ensure that you have nothing rattling in your engine bay and everything is tight and doesnt move easily, i'd say that could be real knock.

Try leaning it out a bit like rfinkle2 suggested. See what that does

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica If you can ensure that you have nothing rattling in your engine bay and everything is tight and doesnt move easily, i'd say that could be real knock. Try leaning it out a bit like rfinkle2 suggested. See what that does

Alright I will make sure everything is tight again then try that. What do you suggest 11.4 leaving timing as is?

[ms3blackmica]

yes try 11.4 and work up

[TurboGsxr600]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica yes try 11.4 and work up

I did actually just compare about 10 logs and it does seem like it could be real knock. Its in that same rpm range every time. But just sometimes like I said not nearly as bad.