How to scale the HPFP pressure sensor

[phantom3]

Parker - PLC, DIRECT ACTING PRESSURE RELIEF VALVES

The PLC series auxiliary valves are direct acting, factory-set pressure relief valves of the cartridge type that can be supplied with or without a threaded plug. They can also be supplied with housings to facilitate in-line installation. PLC valves are intended primarily to act as combined pressure-relief and anticavitation valves - otherwise known as port relief valves - in the service ports of our directional valves. However, they can also be used to advantage in other situations where pressure relief valves in this size range are required.

Features

* Small dimensions - easy to install
* Single unit - facilitates installation
* Very tight - no unnecessary leakage losses
* Small pressure change between different flows
* Low hysteresis - good precision in pressure maintenance
* Fast acting - reacts quickly to pressure surges
* Setting locked by welding - prevents undesirable changing of pressure setting

[djuosnteisn]

One thing to keep in mind while valve huntin, is that the valve must be gasoline tolerant.

Also, some manufacturers cringe when you mention gasoline or automotive, mainly for liability reasons.

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by phantom3 Parker - PLC, DIRECT ACTING PRESSURE RELIEF VALVES The PLC series auxiliary valves are direct acting, factory-set pressure relief valves of the cartridge type that can be supplied with or without a threaded plug. They can also be supplied with housings to facilitate in-line installation. PLC valves are intended primarily to act as combined pressure-relief and anticavitation valves - otherwise known as port relief valves - in the service ports of our directional valves. However, they can also be used to advantage in other situations where pressure relief valves in this size range are required. Features * Small dimensions - easy to install * Single unit - facilitates installation * Very tight - no unnecessary leakage losses * Small pressure change between different flows * Low hysteresis - good precision in pressure maintenance * Fast acting - reacts quickly to pressure surges * Setting locked by welding - prevents undesirable changing of pressure setting

Good find!! Those are spot on the ones from sun hydraulics. These are the cartridge type, they require a manifold, or block. Think of them as a spring actuated spool valve.

[phantom3]

The guy at Parker said they have an adapter for it and it will thread right into the old spot. He's gonna look for it while I'm on holidays.

[SilverDemon]

Cool!!! Thanks for taking the time to look around.

[MS6_Auburn_Fan]

I don't know how hard it would be but would converting the fuel system to a return style setup eliminate this relief valve? Once the valve is gone then some tuning would be needed to tell the ECU to stop looking for it. Nevertheless this is really interesting to follow and I hope you guys get this figured out.

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by MS6_Auburn_Fan I don't know how hard it would be but would converting the fuel system to a return style setup eliminate this relief valve? Once the valve is gone then some tuning would be needed to tell the ECU to stop looking for it. Nevertheless this is really interesting to follow and I hope you guys get this figured out.

I think you would still need a relief valve to maintain the pressure in the rail.

EDIT: I think you would still need a relief valve to relieve the pressure in the rail.

[MS6_Auburn_Fan]

Originally Posted by phantom3 I think you would still need a relief valve to maintain the pressure in the rail.

The pressure in the rail is maintained by the spill valve at the pump. The RV is a safety and provides no other control.

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by MS6_Auburn_Fan The pressure in the rail is maintained by the spill valve at the pump. The RV is a safety and provides no other control.

That's my point. You still require the safety. When you lift off the gas and pressure spikes, it has to go somewhere. The spill valve can't react fast enough.

*edit: sorry I got valves mixed up.

[djuosnteisn]

Phantom nailed it.

Even on my pre-ckt logs i've seen 2100psi during throttle lifts.


And 25psi is fucking nuts.

[phantom3]

CUZ KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!

[bmorrisj]

soooo wait for you, or get a ptp relief valve...

[www.cp-e.com]

Not sure what you guys need this for? We aren't modifying the relief pressure at all.

[djuosnteisn]

Yup, that's what sean told me. Great news IMO!

[cpolly69]

so, is the speed6 different? or does the relief valve just not come into play?? just how far can the stanback scale the fps vs. dj's ckt?

[www.cp-e.com]

DJ's circuit doesnt do what our setup does. It is compeletely differrent. I wish it was that easy but the standback doesn't just scale FP as straight forward as you'd expect. We do a lot of other things behind the scenes as we play with pressure. Simply playin with the pressure with the circuit wont do whats required to make certain things happen.

[shadesofgray19]

It was my understanding that there are several variables to our fueling system.
1. Fuel Pressure
2. Injector Pulse Width
3. Injector Spray Pattern - My understanding, which I am not sure of, is that our fuel injectors are capable of not only controlling length of fueling, but also spray pattern for optimal combustion

[mkriebs]

Originally Posted by shadesofgray19 It was my understanding that there are several variables to our fueling system. 1. Fuel Pressure 2. Injector Pulse Width 3. Injector Spray Pattern - My understanding, which I am not sure of, is that our fuel injectors are capable of not only controlling length of fueling, but also spray pattern for optimal combustion

The way they control spray pattern is through a dish on the piston top, and through the timing of the spray.

[SilverDemon]

I wanted to let you guys know that I have not forgot about the pressure relief valve....I talked to the vendor today to get an estimation of delivery for the first set up, he said he was going to contact them and me know. He said in the past that it takes about 2 weeks to get a custom RV from them. It is now been a week.....More to come!!

[djuosnteisn]

Cool. PTP has begun selling their valves. I'm curious how that all pans out, but it's still a real good idea to keep on your guys.

Thanks again man!

[SilverDemon]

I would like to see a pic of the ptp RV........There was only one company (that I could find) that would completely custom make a valve for our application......

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by Deadman Ohh and one more thing. Matt @ Zzp said "we are considering working with the mazdaspeed platform"

eh..we don't need em anymore ..

but tell him ty anyways =)

[cpolly69]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx eh..we don't need em anymore .. but tell him ty anyways =)

yeah because competition DECREASES productivity - RIGHT?

Are you kiddin me - ZZP is nasty - take a stole thru their website and look at their accomplishments on the lnf & lsj platforms - not to mention do a little comparing to their staged kits compared to GM's for the lsj
It would be sweet to get those guys working on MS3s and give CPE a run for their money...

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 yeah because competition DECREASES productivity - RIGHT? Are you kiddin me - ZZP is nasty - take a stole thru their website and look at their accomplishments on the lnf & lsj platforms - not to mention do a little comparing to their staged kits compared to GM's for the lsj It would be sweet to get those guys working on MS3s and give CPE a run for their money...

I is was talkin my usual blabber...I'm going thru CpE so thats where my thoughts came from.

and pleaseeee can we stop all this MS3 shit and just say MZR or "speeds" not everyone has a speed 3. I hope they take on the 3's and 6's and we have more then a few good companies makin hard parts and tuning solutuons for us.

=)

love u my gizzard polly C wallE a lizards in tha wizards gizzards and blizzards!

[SilverDemon]

Well, for what it's worth......Here is the pressure relief valve and block. I know the block is huge compared to the factory valve, but I bought the block so I could get the measurements to make one to fit my application.

[djuosnteisn]

Can't wait to see what you come up with!

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon Well, for what it's worth......Here is the pressure relief valve and block. I know the block is huge compared to the factory valve, but I bought the block so I could get the measurements to make one to fit my application.

Looks quite nice. Now install dem bitches and link the pics...

[SilverDemon]

Not a problem man!! I have the weekend off, and hopefully I will get the intake mani off so I can find out what type of adjustments I will need to make to the new valve block.

[djuosnteisn]

It's gonna be a tight fit with the fuel hardline wrapped around the valve, but i have no doubt in my mind you'll come up with something awesome!

[SilverDemon]

Yeah, I figured it would be a bitch, and I hope it will be as easy as just milling off some of the extra material on the block. But, as everyone knows that working on this car is not easy!!

[bmorrisj]

ok so what are we doing with this, will this have any bearing on scaling down the load plateau with the AP?

[djuosnteisn]

I'm glad you asked:



Fits inside this box:
http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/1593S.pdf

The battery slider door will be used to access the buttons and leds for programming the unit. And all wires will go in and out the opposite side. I still haven't found oem connectors, but i haven't really tried. I'm sure it'll be easy to find something that will work without too much cutting and stripping wires.

I know i dropped the ball for a while. Life has a tendency to catch up with me sometimes.

But i'm 99% sure i'm done with the design (not really complicated at all), so i think i'll order some boards today or tomorrow. And then i can whip out some simple firmware and hopefully beta test on my own car at some point. I'll build up 5 at first i guess. We'll see how much they end up costing.

Sorry for the lack of updates guys!

[spnkr21]

Holy shit that's awesome.

[djuosnteisn]

Ordered 2 boards today, just to proof it all out and make sure it works like expected. If it does i'll order quite a few more. We'll cross that bridge when it comes.

I ordered through BATCHPCB, for any of you who want cheap pcb boards. They take a lil longer to get (2-3wks typical), but are amazingly cheap. I think they wait til they get enough boards from a bunch of different people and then submit all at once to keep the price low (they have an arrangement with some chinese board house, works for me). Can't argue with $2.50 / sq inch.

Once they come in i'll whip up some simple firmware and test it out on the bench.

And i'll probably look into a way to hook up to the oem connectors without cutting splicing.

[Realgib3]

no cutting = I can test tooooo!!!

[dougefresh_]

Holy McGuyver on Crystal Meth!! Brilliant work DJ!! ...too bad I was lost in the OP! lol I'm hoping this only necessary for people with larger injectors to communicate fueling properly with the ECU, and not for noobs like myself who just need an upgraded HPFP?! From what I read in ATR the hpfp will affect my FT's, and I thought a simple MAF recal would address that np. Is this just for larger injectors, or am I missing out on something here? Man, you're a lot smarter than you look! haha j/k

[bmorrisj]

no such thing as larger injectors

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by bmorrisj no such thing as larger injectors

yes there is

[djuosnteisn]

Only one such thing as bigger injectors, and SS has em.. For the rest of us... no such thing...

Doug, the advantages are there for stock injectors as well. What this thread basically showed was that the stock injectors would actually flow more fuel with increased rail pressure. To some extent, it shows that fueling isn't quite yet an issue, but as we all know, we are getting fairly close. Many of us agree that the earlier you can get the fuel into the cylinder, the more time it will have to mix with the air and become homogeneous and provide a much better burn. It hasn't been quantified yet, power wise, but at least the fueling benefits have been shown.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller yes there is

may I ask why whoosh or whoever else wont take on the task of doing the injector porting for others.???