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 Old 07-07-2010, 01:52 PM   #1
 
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Default MAP sensor question.

Ok I am having trouble finding info about the AEM 3.5 BAR map sensor. I am interested in running maybe 22 or 23 PSI when I install my meth kit for my BT system. Now I've heard a few people now are running pressures well into the mid 20's. I am wondering If I need a bigger MAP sensor even though I am controlling boost through a MBC? I'm not exactly clear on what the bigger sensor is needed for. I think the stock sensor only recognizes up to 21 PSI or so and after that it can't make fuel adjustments? am I close?
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 Old 07-07-2010, 01:56 PM   #2
 
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Well, It stands to reason that

1. If the sensor is only rated to a PSI, that going beyond that can damage it.
2. If the sensor cant go above where you are boosting to then the ECU will not be able to decide how much fuel to add because it will not see that you are at lets say 25 PSI if it can only be rated for 20..

Either way, if a new MAP is added, there will have to be some way to calibrate it, IE ECU Flash, Pigyback or a Standalone ECU.
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 Old 07-07-2010, 02:03 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Jessed87 View Post
Ok I am having trouble finding info about the AEM 3.5 BAR map sensor. I am interested in running maybe 22 or 23 PSI when I install my meth kit for my BT system. Now I've heard a few people now are running pressures well into the mid 20's. I am wondering If I need a bigger MAP sensor even though I am controlling boost through a MBC? I'm not exactly clear on what the bigger sensor is needed for. I think the stock sensor only recognizes up to 21 PSI or so and after that it can't make fuel adjustments? am I close?

These cars don't seem to pay much attention to the MAP other than as a failsafe to trigger boost cut. If you have an aftermarket guage that is accurate and can read higher than the boost your targeting with the MBC you should be fine.

The only reason to add the AEM map is if you have the StandBack and need it to be able to see the higher boost. Currently there is no way to calibrate the ECM to directly use an aftermarket MAP, even the SB converts the AEM MAP's output to the corresponding OEM sensor voltage before passing it to the ECM..

I have the AEM map and it works fine, but I only have it because I use the SB to add fuel based on my boost-and I exceed the OEM sensors limit of 22psi. It is also needed for the SB's boost controller to be able to exceed the OEM sensor limit.
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 Old 07-07-2010, 02:18 PM   #4
 
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i was running 22.5 psi the other day on accident, im not sure if i was just maxing out the MAP or if i was actually at that exact point but thats what i read up to on my log.
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 Old 07-07-2010, 02:25 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by Fagwagon View Post
i was running 22.5 psi the other day on accident, im not sure if i was just maxing out the MAP or if i was actually at that exact point but thats what i read up to on my log.
You maxed out the MAP....

When I was breaking in my motor I was amazed that all my logs showed absolutely no spike and always hit the same number.. ~22psi... I though I had finally had some good luck with this thing.

I installed the AEM MAP and immediately saw that I was actually spiking over 25 psi and holding 23~24psi to redline....
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 Old 07-07-2010, 02:30 PM   #6
 
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Shit a 2 bar sensor should get you there, that's 30 psi...
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 Old 07-07-2010, 02:35 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by darth vader View Post
Shit a 2 bar sensor should get you there, that's 30 psi...
The oem sensor is a 2.5 bar... You have to remember that atmospheric pressure is 1 bar so you only have 1.5 bar left for boost, that gets us to the OEM sensor's ~22psi resolution.
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 Old 07-07-2010, 02:53 PM   #8
 
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ok thank you that's all very informative. So basically I have a mechanical autometer boost gauge that reads directly off of the boost line so that will read my boost accurately. If the MAP sensor only goes up to 22 PSI then if I tune for 22 psi I should really be fine as long as I make my tuner aware of this cars limitations. I mean I will be running meth so If I do very slightly go over the limit of the MAP sensor and the ECU doesn't add fuel to compensate, the cooling effect of the meth should get rid of any small amounts of KR. If anyone has anything to add please feel free.
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 Old 07-07-2010, 03:07 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by SSinstaller View Post
These cars don't seem to pay much attention to the MAP other than as a failsafe to trigger boost cut. If you have an aftermarket guage that is accurate and can read higher than the boost your targeting with the MBC you should be fine.

The only reason to add the AEM map is if you have the StandBack and need it to be able to see the higher boost. Currently there is no way to calibrate the ECM to directly use an aftermarket MAP, even the SB converts the AEM MAP's output to the corresponding OEM sensor voltage before passing it to the ECM..

I have the AEM map and it works fine, but I only have it because I use the SB to add fuel based on my boost-and I exceed the OEM sensors limit of 22psi. It is also needed for the SB's boost controller to be able to exceed the OEM sensor limit.
hmm wait I'm a little confused. To make this easier to answer, I have an MBC and will be tuning with the accessport for now. The way I understand it no matter which boost control method you are using (manual or electric) The ECU still adds fuel based on boost correct? So if I want to tune beyond the stock map sensor levels The ECU will still not recognize the extra boost and will not add any more fuel? I'm kinda confused how that other feller ran 25 PSI by mistake on the stock MAP and didn't like....explode! Is there a way to tune with an MBC so that the conputer will still fuel correctly even though the MAP is maxed? Thank you!
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 Old 07-07-2010, 03:40 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by Jessed87 View Post
hmm wait I'm a little confused. To make this easier to answer, I have an MBC and will be tuning with the accessport for now. The way I understand it no matter which boost control method you are using (manual or electric) The ECU still adds fuel based on boost correct? So if I want to tune beyond the stock map sensor levels The ECU will still not recognize the extra boost and will not add any more fuel? I'm kinda confused how that other feller ran 25 PSI by mistake on the stock MAP and didn't like....explode! Is there a way to tune with an MBC so that the conputer will still fuel correctly even though the MAP is maxed? Thank you!
The ecm uses the MAF to determine how much fuel to add... It does not use the MAP... As long as to don't peg the MAF you can run whatever boost you want and the ECM will add fuel to match the airflow...

I ran 25psi on my GT35 and didn't explode because I have a built motor and my AFR's were in the 10's...
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 Old 07-07-2010, 03:54 PM   #11
 
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That is what I wanted to know. I also have a nice built bottom end and I plan to put it to use. Now I just have to pray to the injector seal god. Thank you very much for the helpful insight.
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 Old 07-07-2010, 03:54 PM   #12
 
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You can use a 3 bar map sensor with the accessport / ATR. The only thing that doesnt work is if your datalog / OBD2 device wont see anything past 255 kPa. This will be fixed soon. The standback can also use them if im not mistaken.
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 Old 07-07-2010, 03:56 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Jessed87 View Post
That is what I wanted to know. I also have a nice built bottom end and I plan to put it to use. Now I just have to pray to the injector seal god.
He doesn't hear...lol
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 Old 07-07-2010, 05:17 PM   #14
 
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That is what I'm afraid of. Just out of curiosity when the injector seals do pack their bags, is it still possible to drive the vehicle light footed back home? or does it knock a fair amount under normal throttle?
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 Old 07-07-2010, 05:39 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by SSinstaller View Post
The oem sensor is a 2.5 bar... You have to remember that atmospheric pressure is 1 bar so you only have 1.5 bar left for boost, that gets us to the OEM sensor's ~22psi resolution.
Right, fuck, I'm retarded today, I nearly fell off the roof cleaning the moss off it this morning. Gotta know when to call it a day, sometimes that's not even lunchtime
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 Old 07-07-2010, 07:43 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Jessed87 View Post
That is what I'm afraid of. Just out of curiosity when the injector seals do pack their bags, is it still possible to drive the vehicle light footed back home? or does it knock a fair amount under normal throttle?
Yeah you can still drive. It will knock when Exhaust goes out the inj. ports which is only at wot.
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 Old 07-08-2010, 03:33 PM   #17
 
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haha good to know thank you!
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 Old 07-08-2010, 06:41 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by JumpingJackson View Post
You can use a 3 bar map sensor with the accessport / ATR. The only thing that doesnt work is if your datalog / OBD2 device wont see anything past 255 kPa. This will be fixed soon. The standback can also use them if im not mistaken.

what do you mean this will be fixed soon?
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 Old 07-08-2010, 07:18 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by JumpingJackson View Post
You can use a 3 bar map sensor with the accessport / ATR. The only thing that doesnt work is if your datalog / OBD2 device wont see anything past 255 kPa. This will be fixed soon. The standback can also use them if im not mistaken.
The SB shows me the correct boost, but any device that polls via the canbus will give an incorrect boost reading...

OBD2 devices polling via the canbus see the sensor voltages and then convert that to an actual value.. ~5V is still the upper limit, and nothing Cobb can do will make an aftermarket logger understand that the voltage output of the new sensor does not correlate to the OEM value..
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