AP install: before and after dyno

[ztuner]

hi,

Just finished an ap install on my stock ms3. I used the stageI ver 101 program stock hp was 228.2 whp, after ap install it was .4 hp less . The peak stock torque was 232.8, after was 243.6. Up 9 ftlbs at a lower rpm.

The real difference with the ap is a bigger bump in mid range torque and the fact that torque does not fall off at the higher rpms over 5500 rpm. Gains of 40 ft lbs torque between 5500 an 6000 rpm. The overall a/f is signifiantly leaner and the boost does not drop off above 5500 rpm. I observed 12 psi at 6000 rpm.

We did a dyno with the economy map just to see what it does. Definately lower hp and a LOT leaner. i feel uncomfortable running so lean. interestingly in all the ap tunes 0 knock count. Will scan some sheets in the morning.

Harry

[subparpunk03]

Thats strange, my before / after dyno with the AP stage 1+ vs. stock + showed a gain of about 15 hp and 3 tq.

Granted the dyno's were done about a year apart so their accuracy is.... well.... questionable

This round of dyno-ing was more to test out whats going on with the new reworked k04 I'm having installed, but since my last dyno was pre-AP and the pre-turbo dyno was post AP.... I'll post the results just as soon as I can get up to the shop today and get the graphs scanned.

[ztuner]

Originally Posted by subparpunk03 Thats strange, my before / after dyno with the AP stage 1+ vs. stock + showed a gain of about 15 hp and 3 tq. Granted the dyno's were done about a year apart so their accuracy is.... well.... questionable This round of dyno-ing was more to test out whats going on with the new reworked k04 I'm having installed, but since my last dyno was pre-AP and the pre-turbo dyno was post AP.... I'll post the results just as soon as I can get up to the shop today and get the graphs scanned.

my dynoes were about 10 minutes apart and everything was cooled down. Both runs had very similar inlet and water temps. Ambient temps ver were close too and so was humidity.

Harry

[ATE BALLER]

10 minutes under fans isn't really enough to cool down after a dyno run. I would have waited an hour with fans on it.

[Haltech]

Even than, the top mount still doesnt get the same kind of air that way unless that they had a TMIC adapter.

[ztuner]

Originally Posted by ATE BALLER 10 minutes under fans isn't really enough to cool down after a dyno run. I would have waited an hour with fans on it.

Ummmn, I got the temps down to the same intake and boost temps AND water temps. The IC's were cool to the touch. The Intake manifold was almost cool. After the AP Stage I run, we popped in the Stock program and got a repeat of where we were. The runs were accurate. There are many ways to reduce ic temps between runs. You do not have to cool down for an hour.

I don't want this to turn into a cobb vs who ever war. I kow how to dyno cars. The numbers I gave you are 100 % accurate and tested the right way. I have no fish to fry here. I'm not in the cobb vs cpe game so.....

Harry

[ztuner]

Originally Posted by Haltech Even than, the top mount still doesnt get the same kind of air that way unless that they had a TMIC adapter.

Hal, i logged aits and boost temps driving on the interstate today. The ic temps when i tested on the dyno were WAY cooler and most likely would have been in favor of higher hp vs the street. I had a fan blowing virtually top down on the ic - the ic shroud was off. Boost temps at the begining of the run were very close to ait's which in turn were about 10 deg higher than room ambient. On the street the variation between true ambient vs ait is higher than 10 deg. We completed the run in less than 45 sec after firing up the motor. The engine, intake or the ic did not get a chance to heatsoak.

All that being said - we ensured that the starting temps before all runs were withen a few degrees , if anything the whole system was a lot cooler when on the subsequent runs.

The reason i do not like waiting 1 hour between runs is that the coolant temp drops too much. If it gets too cold and you do a run when the ecu is not seeing it fully warmed up - 2 things will happen. 1 the car will run a LOT richer. 2 The ecu will most likely never go into open loop. This will cause highly skewed results. THe MS3 seem to idle at 187 - 190 fully warmed up. You want the coolant temp in that range to get an accurate dyno run. Any lower will cause it to apply cold start correction screwing up your a/f and power readings.

Harry

[ATE BALLER]

How about oil temps, cyl. temps, manifold temps, exhaust temps, tranny temps? I promise you didn't get those all down anywhere close to the same in 10 minutes. A 20*F difference in oil temps alone could be over 5hp. That's why you're supposed to wait.

[shucky]

For the love of God, does it really matter that he made 2 runs within 10 min? Waiting longer would have proved what exactly? Instead of -.4 whp he might have gotten +2 whp? Does it really matter?

[ATE BALLER]

Christ man, settle down. He wanted to point out the peak loss due to the AP, so I rebuttled why it may not really have lost any peak hp. It's probably right on par with every other v101 car out there.