Excellent Shock Strut Damper comparison Webpage

[FreeFlyFreak]

Just found this web page and thought it was excellent for anyone considering new shocks.
Also a lot of info for guys wanting to set their car up for AutoX

DGs Autocross Secrets aka Autocross to Win, Struts
DGs Autocross Secrets aka Autocross to Win, Springs

If you want the quick and dirty it is this:

Struts Remember this list:

Bilstein
Penske
Koni
Ohlins
Sachs
Dynamic Suspension

Not on this list? Almost certainly crap.

Springs:

Hypercoil for consistancy

[udontknowjack]

this is soooo old

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by udontknowjack this is soooo old

Thanks for your post, I learned a lot.

[fjames]

Thanks for the link, always like a good read. I found his observations on the Konis pretty much spot on - there's an obvious change from 2->3, but not so much from 0->2. So 3 seems to be the magic number (my front and rears both stop at about 4.5.)

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by fjames Thanks for the link, always like a good read. I found his observations on the Konis pretty much spot on - there's an obvious change from 2->3, but not so much from 0->2. So 3 seems to be the magic number (my front and rears both stop at about 4.5.)

What concerned me about the konis were his comments that:
"Koni's quality control on the Yellows is such that the odds on any two shocks with the same part number matching forces are very small - there's quite a bit of shock-to-shock variation. But bought as a group buy and then dyno matched, it is possible to put together matched sets. Be aware that I've seen Koni Yellows with the same part number that matched perfectly when one was 1/2 turn off full hard, and the other was at full soft - I consider the adjuster knob a way to match shocks on the dyno, NOT a tuning tool."

In other words just setting both the fronts (or rears) to 3 wont necessarily give you the same damping on each strut. They need to be dynoed or your shooting in the dark.

Basically what I get from his article is this:
Penske, excellent, well matched, adjustable BUT huge $$$$
Blistein, excellent, well matched, low $, BUT not adjustable
Koni yellows, excellent, low $, BUT not well matched, to work around this you need to group buy and dyno them to find matched sets, or dyno and match them with the adjustment knobs.

[fjames]

Yeah, that kind of stuff is always scary to read. But when you think about it, for me at least, it comes down to frame of reference. He's a skilled competition driver looking at parts for his race car, so his standards are appropriate for that. What I'm doing is comparing a factory stock shock to a Koni (or whatever.) Also, his comments on the adjustable range might fit into your quote. In other words, if the linear range is maybe 1/3 of the whole range, it could be if you stick with the linear range your odds are better of matching. What it really comes down to though is does it matter on a street shock when the stockers are so sucky?

It is a good argument for Bilsteins though - I assume not having any adjustment makes it easier to get them equal to begin with. I seriously considered the bils, but wasn't comfortable that they didn't list them for US cars. But now they do! They show a Volvo (S40?) for the rear if you haven't checked recently.

[Frequentflyer]

Bilsteins are significantly more expensive than the Koni's and come pretty darn close to coilover setups in the $1200-1400 range, especially when you add the cost of aftermarket springs.

I had Bilsteins on my '99 Miata with the sport suspension package and I did very well in A-stock with them.

[stretch]

It's only a good argument for Bilstein if you revalve them yourself. OTS designs aren't going to be valved for your particular springs; they're just an estimate of what Bilstein supposes you'll run. In this case, they even use the same part number for many vehicles.

The Koni variances are overblown. Yes, they exist, but from what I've seen they're typically quite small. Compare them to something like K-Sports, as TriPoint has done here:
Truth about K-Sports? - Mazda Forums

(In short, the Koni's were pretty close, while a K-Sport on full stiff was still softer than the other one on full soft.)

I have little doubt that Bilstein's valving is more tightly controlled if you're comparing it to an adjustable Koni. The adjustable damper has more parts that affect the valving, so this makes sense. However, if you're buying Bilsteins that aren't valved to your springs, it kind of misses the point! I think Bilsteins would be a great option for folks doing their own rebuilds.

[Haltech]

Bilsteins have and always will be, over-rated in my book. I would choose a Koni Yellow any day of the week if i had to choose. After 9 suspension systems on my mustang, next to a full 4 wheel coilover conversion, the Koni's were top notch that even gave me second thoughts about going coilover.

I really only gained roughly 2.33 seconds in lap time between the two setups... the coilovers costs me 2X the amount. Thats impressive on such a shitty chassis like a mustang for strut/shock combo to rival a coilover setup. Spring choice is critical and H&R made heavy enough spring rates to match the aggressive Koni's.

If enough time was dedicated to testing, the same thing could be done on the MS3.. but were talkin probably 3 different koni setups would need to be tested with 10 or so spring rates, to find the perfect balance. Unfortunately, we dont have a real hardcore road track userbase yet who could accomplish this task.